More Jackie Tohn, Please!

There are some roles that require complete transformation from an actor, and then there are some that feel more like second skin. For Nobody Wants This star Jackie Tohn, Esther Roklov is the latter. "Esther's dialogue falls freely from my face," the actress tells me with a chuckle. It's the end of two long press days, and before she slips into a sheer chocolate-brown The Row dress for the show's season 2 premiere, Tohn has one last interview—this one. Sitting casually on her hotel couch, legs tucked underneath her, she's just as you'd expect: warm, funny, and self-deprecating. Her energy is palpable.

Despite its title, everybody, in fact, wanted the Netflix series. Following its premiere last fall, the romantic comedy—which follows Joanne, an agnostic podcaster, and Noah, a newly single rabbi, who fall in love and are forced to navigate their very different lives and meddling families—quickly became a cultural touchpoint. Audiences were obsessed. The storytelling is fresh and wholly relatable, and its ensemble cast, led by Kristen Bell and Adam Brody, is beyond fantastic. Not to mention, the show's wardrobe, masterfully crafted by Negar Ali Kline, was widely searched on the internet, becoming a phenomenon in fashion circles.

But back to Tohn. The GLOW and The Boys actress was an immediate standout as Esther Roklov, Noah's hardened sister-in-law. Fiercely protective, her jabs biting yet quick-witted, she is both the foil to Noah and Joanne's love story and a source of brilliant comedy. We all know and love an Esther in our lives. What's exciting about season 2 is we get to see more of this multidimensional woman, and she's on a mission to break down some of her walls and prove she can actually be fun. Well, she's trying at least. What comes of it is an honest journey of self-discovery and a shocking admission in the final episode. Her arc this season is so good I wanted more of Esther (ahem, Tohn) on my screen.

A lesson learned early on by most actors in this business is just because you're perfect for a role doesn't always mean you get it, but to use Tohn's words, "thank frick" she did!

Nobody Wants This was a huge success. It was the return of the messy rom-com and the introduction of the hot rabbi. When did you first realize/know you had something really amazing here?

We had no idea ever at any point. It does have Kristen Bell and Adam Brody kissing, so there are things in this that are going to be universally loved. But also as an actor (and Tim [Simons] and I have always talked about this), how many things we've done that we thought were maybe going to be the thing and either nobody saw it or some people saw it and it was critically acclaimed but it wasn't a hit, you just don't know. At this point in all of our careers and lives, you're setting yourself up for disaster if you're filming something and you're looking at each other high-fiving like, "We got it this time, you guys!" And then it comes out, and nobody watches it, and there's critic crickets.

We were as shocked as anyone. We loved the show we were making. We were so grateful to make it in L.A. We loved the scripts and the characters and arcs and the growth and all of it, and still, especially now with 400 networks and streaming and Tubi and Freevee, to break through is very hard. So it feels very magical that we were able to do that. The answer to the question is both—we definitely didn't know while we were shooting and getting the scripts and all of that, but the Netflix executives were really excited about it when they were watching season 1, and we were just excited that they loved it so much. But also, it's like when your mom is proud of your school play. Right, but is it good? They could be impartial, but it turns out it's just a really good show. Honestly, the short answer is we didn't know it was going to blow up until it blew up, and people were asking me questions in interviews like, "How does it feel to be part of a cultural juggernaut?" And I was like, "I'm part of a cultural juggernaut? That's cool as hell."

What was the response you got to Esther?

It was by and large super positive and warm, and people were excited about the naturalistic Jewish representation on television that's not surrounding perseverance and the trauma of what it is to just be a Jewish person. You know most Jewish storytelling, and it's important that these stories get told, as my grandparents are Holocaust survivors, but most Jewish movies are like, "They tried to kill us. They didn't. Let's eat." That's every Jewish holiday in a nutshell. Adam and I have spoken about this, but I think what's so exciting about this show is that these are just people who happen to be Jewish and are existing, but there are all these intricate romances and relationships involved. It's just storytelling about these people, but they could be any [religion]. … What I was getting a lot from people was like, "It's just such a relief to see this story being told in this way."

I read that Bell was the one who pushed for you to audition for Esther instead of Rebecca. When you first read Esther, what were your thoughts/immediate connections?

Yes, my agent was like, "We have an audition for you. It's for this show called Shiksa and the character Rebecca." I've obviously known Kristen forever, so I was like, "Oh, I'm auditioning for that show you're doing." It wasn't like, "Hey, get me the role." And she was like, "No, no, no. There's this other character." But neither of them had that much to do. I think Rebecca was in a couple. Esther was in a couple. It just would have been cool to guest-star on this really amazing show, but then of course, it turned into much more (thank frick), and it's the best thing that's ever happened to me.

I read the Rebecca sides, and she was really sweet. I loved it, but I have more of an edge. So obviously, Esther's dialogue falls freely from my face—a short poem by Jackie Tohn. As actors, we have all these times where we stretch ourselves. I remember years ago I played an alcoholic Southern girl in an episode of some TNT show, and [switching into a Southern accent] my character's name was Delilah Boswell. We're doing all of these things as actors, and then sometimes, you audition for Esther Roklov, and you're like, "Can we party? And can we rage?" But also, in the history of most people's acting careers and certainly mine, you can audition for a part you're exactly right for. You're still not getting it. We are in a funny business.

I feel like Esther maybe got a bad rap the first season. Her good friend was dumped by Noah, and this new girl is coming into the picture, so of course, she's going to be protective and have her reservations. Were you protective of Esther in that way?

It's also not only that it's her good friend. It's that she and her husband and her best friend and her brother-in-law are this fearsome foursome. They do everything together, and that's over now. It's like, of course she's pissed. And this girl comes from out of nowhere. She's nothing like anyone you've ever dated, and she's the one? Nobody needs to be that harsh about it, but I think it's comedy. It's television—there needs to be a foil. If everyone is thrilled about the relationship, literally what is the show?

It's very real.

Also, Morgan isn't any happier about [Joanne and Noah's relationship] than Esther is. She's like, "Who the hell is this? You're ruining our podcast. This is a nightmare." I giggle at anyone who paints it as a way that my character is this and that and the other. Morgan and Joanne are just as flawed as Esther and Bina.

This season is really exciting because we get to dive into Esther and Sasha's relationship a bit more. What were you really hoping to see with them going into this season?

I always find this question interesting, and I feel like I'm negging when I answer it. … I wasn't hoping for anything. I don't have skin in the game for Sasha and Esther to exist happily ever after. You know what I mean? I love making this show, and it's fun for Sasha and Esther if they're having the best time in a dance class, and it's fun for Sasha and Esther if he comes into the closet and is like, "What jacket should I wear?" and I'm like, "To be honest, I don't care." And then she catches herself and realizes that was too harsh. She's trying to be nicer. Playing it all is really fun.

Playing jealous of him and Morgan is really interesting, especially in season 2 when Esther is on this self-discovery journey. She's realizing that she's been on a high-speed train to a goal, which is to be married, have a kid… You have a mother-in-law. You're going to Shabbat. You're doing your thing. You have a job. She's just going, and I think she stops in season 2 and realizes two things. First of all, why is everyone else having fun and I'm not? I'm in a self-imposed tightness in a cage for no reason. I don't need to be doing that. Also, if I had this all to do over again, would these be the decisions I would make if I am me now? I don't think she chose to get pregnant and have Miriam. She got pregnant, and she was with Sasha, and they loved each other, so they stayed together and got married and did the things. I think a lot of us in our lives do what seems like socially and familiarly the right step, and I think she's looking back on all of that and being like, "I actually don't know what I want, but what I do know is I can't figure it out standing right here next to you."

You have such great chemistry with Timothy Simons, who plays Sasha. Coming back for season 2, what were some of those scenes that were so fun to shoot together?

Well, there are so many. First of all, episode 1 was so fun because Esther can't take it anymore, and she's like, "I got to just nip it in the bud." So the scene with Sasha and Morgan where she's like, "Come into the room with me—this is bullshit," that was one of my favorites to shoot because it was a long time coming. We're not just going to sit here and be weird with each other. This is done. Everybody, let's go! So I love that scene and how it played out.

And obviously Tim dancing to "7 Rings." I saw that in the script, and it just said, "They go to a dance school, and Sasha dances for Esther," and I was like, "Oh, that will be fun and cute." I didn't know that he was planning choreography. I didn't know that he had taken five classes. I didn't know that choreographer was meeting with him on a regular basis before this. So we start shooting, and Tim was like, "Just make sure Jackie has not seen this before we shoot." And then they point the camera at me so he can get his jitters out, and he does the dance. I don't know if it was Esther or Jackie or both or neither—I was jaw dropped. I think I fell to my knees at one point. I was jumping up and down. So that was really fun. I also love that she gets to be more multidimensional this season and a little goofier, where she's like, "I can be fun!" I don't know if she quite gets there, but she has the intention to do it.

Big development this season: Esther gets bangs! At one point, Joanne says to her, "You got bangs. You have to be at least a little unstable." Do you feel like getting bangs is a cry for help?

You know, I feel two ways about it. We know on paper and in film and also in real life [that] if people want to make a change, it's a great way to do it because it's severe, and it's extreme without getting a pixie cut, which is another way to do it. I love a pixie cut on people, but I'm too much of a wuss to get one. I'm too attached to my long hair. So bangs is that medium way to be like, "I'm going to change myself." … I had bangs for like 10 years, and they were the opposite. Those really cool shag haircuts were in with a thousand different layers and little piecey ends and big, blunt bangs, and I was just a freak and a touring musician, and I just loved that haircut. I thought it was hot. It's such a bummer for people who aren't going through something and get bangs because people are like, "Are you okay?" And it's like, "Yeah, I think this is a cute haircut!" Nobody is asking people with any other haircut if they are going through something, yet they probably are. It's many levels.

The fashion on this show is so good. We talk about it a lot atBest Knockoff Luxury Clothing . Can you tell me about the vision for Esther's look and what those fittings are like?

I think Negar always had an idea of how Esther looked, and she calls this color that Esther wears Roklov red, which I'll tell you about. That's Esther's color. [In] episode 1 of season 2, she's in that long, gorgeous burgundy coat, and the shirt and the silk skirt and the different textures, even the boots, are that color. The belt is that color. And season 1, that was a similar Esther color, but it's very jewel tones, navy, forest greens, or that evergreen. Joanne is in red and blue and striped and black turtlenecks. So there are definitely those two sides where the Roklovs are in these jewel tones.

There's a piece that Negar… When we talked about last season, I wore that ankle-length leopard-print coat. There is a little bit of mob wife in Esther. She likes her gold jewelry and showing up, and I think there's a lot of growth because in the last episode at the basketball game she's in the ankle-length coat, but in season 2… I think it's episode 2 where they're at the basketball game, and Esther is in a leopard cardigan. It's like she's back at the basketball court, but she's trying to loosen up. She doesn't even have the energy anymore. She doesn't know where she is with Sasha. She's like, "I still love my leopard, but the most I can do is a cardigan."

This is a season of a lot of self-discovery for Esther. If we get a season 3, what do you hope to see for her?

I just want to do what I want to do. This has nothing to do with Esther. I think Esther becomes a cabaret singer and a comedian à la Bette Midler. No, that would just be really fun.

Can you imagine?

I could not imagine, but I wish I could because I want to do that. I think it would be really cool to meet Esther's family. I think it would be really cool if her mom was played by Bette Midler or Fran Drescher, Barbra [Streisand]. Let me throw out a couple of my idols to pop in as her mother. I don't know—we got Seth Rogen for season 2.

Yes, fantastic guest stars this season! Leighton Meester and Seth Rogen.

I would just love to see where she comes from. Is there something interesting where we see Esther's mother and she's so overbearing she makes Esther wilt—she makes Esther look like a delicate tulip? I say this to everybody, but it's really more of a pipe dream, but I would love a musical episode. Never going to happen. Kristen would be like, "Yes," but everyone else would be like, "Are you two crazy?!" And we already have our tap shoes on, like a bottle episode. I would also love "the gang goes to Hawaii" because I would love to be paid and sent to Hawaii.

Nobody Wants This season 2 is now streaming on Netflix.

Photographer: Molly Matalon
Stylist: Laura Farris Schuffman
Hairstylist: Scott King
Makeup Artist: Mai Quynh
Creative Director: Amy Armani
Producer: Erin Corbett